Burt Grossman’s Severance Pay: Part 4
Well, we knew it was going to get interesting but we had no idea HOW interesting it was going to get. After first discovering that he had $40,000 in Severance Pay owed to him since his retirement in 1994, Burt Grossman has been going through what can only be described politely as a maze of pure bureaucracy. Short of telling him ‘The dog ate the paperwork’, the NFL has fed him just about every excuse they could come up with:
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- You applied for it several years after you retired;
- No, wait: You were supposed to have applied for it 20 months after you retired;
- Forget that last one: Since you didn’t apply for your severance pay within 20 months after retirement, WE did it for you;
- Oh wait: We sent you your check in 1998, 4 years (not 20 months) after you retired;
- But: We also sent you a W-2 in 1998 and we’ll send you a copy of it;
- Oh and BTW: We had originally sent everything to a house that you sold three years earlier;
- And um: There is no evidence that the check was ever deposited or cashed;
- You need to call your Union;
- NFLPA: You need to hire a lawyer;
- NFL: Never mind: We’re NOT going to pay you and we want arbitration and YOU have to prove WE didn’t pay YOU.
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Read Part 1 HERE Part 2 HERE and Part 3 HERE.
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And now the NFL has just come back and told his lawyer, Daniel Anastasia, that they intend to take this to arbitration and that the burden of proof is now on Burt to prove that he DIDN’T receive that Severance Check! Keep in mind that originally, Burt had even graciously offered to accept his Severance Check with no interest (now rescinded) when he first requested it in February. So after going through a long list of excuses and running Burt around from bureaucrat to bureaucrat, they feel their best option is to throw more lawyers at it? Just exactly what is there to hide? Are there more retired players out there who are owed a potential total of millions in accumulated severance checks by individual teams? And will the League now try to close the open-ended Severance Pay eligibility rules as stated in current CBA’s?
Click on the thumbnail below to enlarge the NFL’s letter to Burt’s attorney for easier reading.
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So they want a copy of Burt’s tax return at least 10 days before the hearing and they have yet to provide a W-2 that they had promised to send him 35 days ago? If there was ever a valid reason to demand a complete audit of the NFL’s books, this one should be high on the list for the Dept. of Labor.
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Michael Forte
March 24th, 2010 at 8:36 PM #
You fail to address the NFL’s argument that the claim is time-barred.
Michael Forte
RobertinSeattle
March 24th, 2010 at 8:51 PM #
The IRS has already had that upheld when they found and seized Andre Rison’s long-undiscovered Severance Pay that he’d never gotten. Then the IRS stepped aside and allowed the money to go to overdue child support. Read the story on Detroit Free Press – click HERE.
Burt Grossman
March 24th, 2010 at 10:05 PM #
According to them they say they paid, so why even state it’s time-barred if you claim it was already paid? Bringing up that argument sounds like a way to not pay. By the way, severance isn’t timed barred otherwise their sending my payment 4 years after my last active season would also be negligence.
Burt Grossman
San Diego Chargers, Philadelphia Eagles
1989 -1994
John Hogan
March 25th, 2010 at 10:33 AM #
The Rison case is not dispositive of the issue. From the article attached, it is unclear when the IRS attached Rison’s severance – and they may have done so in a “timely” manner.
There are several legal doctrines in play here – one is the Statue of Limitations. If a claim is not asserted and perfected (collected) within a certain period of time, there is no further LEGAL obligation to pay. (A MORAL obligation is another matter, entirely.) So, even where Burt was clearly entitled, and the NFL attempted to pay, but he didn’t actually receive it, the Statue of Limitations can be asserted as a legal defense against the obligation to pay. You will recall that because of this law, the GLA Class Action law suit only covered guys who had signed within a fairly recent period of time.
I would be quick to add that there is NO statue of limitations for moral obligations (i.e. – “doing the right thing”) particularly where there are “deep pockets” involved.
And I would add that it never ceases to amaze me that when a guy retired from the League, his (former) agent and/or his Union or team player rep didn’t have a sit-down with him to explain all of his rights and benefits.
John Hogan
Disability Attorney
RobertinSeattle
March 25th, 2010 at 11:00 AM #
Excellent answer, John.
As I understood the IRS/Rison situation, they did go after his severance AFTER that supposed 20-month application period. As Burt pointed out, it seems clear that after the League’s claim to have paid that Severance fell apart, they decided to NOT pay the money. What we’re particularly interested in is how they account for all that unclaimed Severance Pay on their books and whether or not this is something the Dept. of Labor needs to investigate seriously. All I know is that if this were any other Multibillion Dollar Fortune 500 Corporation, an employee simply receiving their Severance Check automatically upon retirement or termination would not be an issue. Period.
Additionally, assuming a legitimate W-2 had been sent out both to Burt AND the IRS, then wouldn’t that mean the IRS had already received taxes on income that was acknowledged as paid by the employer (the Eagles in this case)? So why would the IRS be then allowed to keep taxes on money that hasn’t actually been paid? Now of course, if a W-2 hadn’t ever REALLY been sent out as they had previously claimed, would that constitute fraud? Sorry for my ignorance of the law – just trying to apply some common sense here. It just sounds a lot like the league’s standard old way of Shoot-first-ask-questions-later approach: When in doubt, send the lawyers in with a shotgun.
Gee – I’d love to see the Eagles try to get THAT money back from the IRS! Isn’t this all kind of like being half-pregnant?
Burt Grossman
March 25th, 2010 at 12:40 PM #
And again why under their claim was the money randomly sent out 4 years after my last season rather the 20 months as stated in their own rules? That’s a big gap – not a 60-day delay but rather over 2 years! Now if I was so negligent for not knowing about this, aren’t they negligent under the same measure for taking over 4 years to send a random phantom check that no one can now provide any proof of? As far as a statute of limitations, the money was paid according to them so the contract was fulfilled. So the money is already mine and there’s no statute on ownership. It should have been forwarded to the Pennsylvania state controller and placed in their Unclaimed Funds account like every upstanding legal business entity is bound to do. It looks like they’re just trying to shift the debate away from the facts.
Burt Grossman
San Diego Chargers, Philadelphia Eagles
1989 -1994
Burt Grossman
March 25th, 2010 at 1:06 PM #
John,
And by no means am I trying to debate the law with you. All I know is I never received this money and even if I never get it that’s fine, too. But I won’t let it get buried and written off as though they paid me. One way or another, they will have to admit that I never got the money and they kept it. And let them try to defend it as a Statue of Limitations issue; that’s also fine with me. They will be exposed as the dirt bags they are. I’m not Andre Rison or anyone else. I have two kids by my wife of ten years who is a school principal and I have a Masters in Special Education teaching special needs children as well as being on the Board of Directors of Meals on Wheels. I have no skeletons to embarrass me away from this fight. So if they don’t pay, they will be forced to tell the real reason why I never received the funds and not just a “You got it now get lost!”
Burt Grossman
San Diego Chargers, Philadelphia Eagles
1989 -1994
John Hogan
March 25th, 2010 at 4:17 PM #
Burt,
I hope you could read in my comments that I hoped you would get it. Also, as you have a lawyers, I won’t throw out any more legal opinions! I was only trying to explain that where a person does not exercise a legal right, they can lose the right to pursue a valid claim with the passage of time.
And I certainly wasn’t trying to compare you to Andre Rison!
John Hogan
Disability Attorney
Burt Grossman
March 25th, 2010 at 4:59 PM #
No problem, John. No insult taken in any way – any advice you have is welcome. Again, you may be correct but if that’s the case, then let that be their published reason ….not ‘You already got it randomly 4 1/2 years after retirement, so go away!’
Again any and all advice you can provide is a welcome addition for me.
And I keep seeing those numbers on this poll going up as to people who didn’t know about severance and never received it. If I fathered a child and the mother or no one else ever informs me about it, isn’t it still my child even if I find out 16 years later through no fault of my own?
Burt Grossman
San Diego Chargers, Philadelphia Eagles
1989 -1994
Lionel James
March 26th, 2010 at 4:24 AM #
I am going to mention what I emailed Burt concerning getting a copy of his 1998 income tax return, he must file Form 4506-T with the IRS. Form 4506-T is a,”REQUEST FOR TRANSCRIPT OF TAX RETURN.” The IRS, as well as H&R Block and other Income filing companies by rule do not have to keep records after 7 years, but often they’re kept on microfiche. The 4506-T form you can get for a fee. The fee is $57.00. I mailed my request form in and the IRS mailed my check back, stating that this request was free! I would still advise sending the check and allowing the IRS to send it back, because if you don’t send the $57.00 and they request it, you will have lost a lot of time starting the process all over again. If I receive any more information to share, I will post it here on Dave Pear’s blog.
A note to John Hogan: In your work with retired professional football players, have you ever witnessed how quickly the door closes on a player that has been cut? It’s like the old saying,”Wham Bam, thank you ma’am!” It’s hard enough trying to reach an agreement on a contract; some teams wait a year to sign their picks, some players take a year to get the numbers that they can agree on. In other words, both parties are trying to get a deal done. Now, when a player is cut, you don’t see the GM or Owner waiting to get you through this process. The player is the ‘Wham and Bam – just get out of here!’ because we have another herd of players to focus on. You are considered now the past, which is part of the team’s history. And as you know, this is the time when the player becomes the cold case, and you’re put in the cold case file only to be opened when that player dies. Mr. Hogan, the basis of our entire justice system is “Innocent until proven guilty.” Now why are WE the ones assumed guilty until proven innocent? If you have actually paid these monies out, would it be any problem for you to show that we’re the guilty ones? I find it hard to believe that a billion-dollar-a-year industry is working with Flintstone technology when it comes to record keeping.
Lionel James
San Diego Chargers
1984 – 1988
John Hogan
March 26th, 2010 at 9:14 AM #
Lionel,
I am constantly amazed how you guys have been abandoned by your teams, the league, the union, your player reps and your agents. Certainly the public at large doesn’t know or understand up to this point.
Things are changing for the better with blogs like this, e-mail and the Internet, as well as advocacy efforts, lawsuits and congressional interest and pressure.
Going back to legal issues, there is a significant difference between the presumption of innocence in a criminal proceeding and the burden of proof in a civil matter. But even most crimes have statutes of limitation which limit the time in which you can be prosecuted.
As for record keeping, I am not required to keep any records, files, etc., for anywhere near 16 years. I don’t know if the League or Union is required to either.
John Hogan
Disability Attorney
Irv Cross
March 26th, 2010 at 10:08 AM #
Lionel & Burt:
There’s a method to the “madness” of processing terminated players quickly. If you have a copy of the 2006-2012 Collective Bargaining Agreement read Article XXll (Waiver System) Section 5: NFLPA’S Right to Personnel Information.
Here is the specific clause:
“The NFL shall inform the NFLPA of player personnel transactions communicated in the Personnel Notice between the NFL and its member Clubs concerning the termination or trading of players including awards on waivers, termination through waivers, confirmation of trades or any change in the status of players (e.g. – placed on Reserved Injured, etc.). The NFL will make best efforts to communicate the information referred to in this Article to the NFLPA on the same day, but in no event later than noon on the next day. A player who is terminated shall, upon request at or around the time of termination, be informed by the terminating Club of any claims made upon him by NFL Clubs during that League Year. The same information will be provided to the NFLPA if requested.”
That’s it!
Irv Cross
Philadelphia Eagles & LA Rams
1961 – 1969
EDITOR’S NOTE: You can read the entire 2006 – 2012 CBA in an earlier post – click HERE.
RobertinSeattle
March 26th, 2010 at 8:34 PM #
I have a couple of questions that may help shed some light on your Severance Pay problem. If anyone can answer them, it would probably enlighten everyone else.
1) If you didn’t know about Severance Pay being available to you, did you have an agent representing you at the time you retired?
2) If you HAD an agent, did that agent actually receive a fee from your Severance Pay as they would from your contract? And if they received a different fee, how much higher was it?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Feel free to answer using a comment and if you don’t want your name published, just say so and we won’t publish your comment. We just want to know if having an agent made any difference.
Henry Bradley
March 27th, 2010 at 12:41 AM #
I sent my information to John Hogan and he told me about the statute of limitations. I have a severance payout list showing I had been paid in 1985. I also have a memo from the Browns saying they were not going to pay me because they said during a grievance filed by outside counsel, I had signed my severance away!
But the NFLPA filed a grievance on my behalf. They won the grievance but were outsmarted by the Brown’s lawyers. I followed the entire process writing letters to all departments.
I even talked to Gene about it and he said leave it alone! I took it as a warning.
Henry Bradley
Cleveland Browns
1979 – 1982
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March 27th, 2010 at 6:38 AM #
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Lionel James
March 27th, 2010 at 11:53 AM #
OK – I guess the only crime that has no statute of limitations is murder. Isn’t killing families murder? When you hold funds back from a person that he dearly needs to take care of his family, what would you call it? If my son was a genius and had interest in becoming a brain specialist which could save lives all over the world, I would call it genocide. But for this purpose I will call it murder because you are hurting one which may affect the world. My question is: What would you be doing if it was your brother, son or dad. (I left women out only because they do not play football but are still greatly affected by it.)
I say anti-trust law should be taken back and the books with the numbers opened up so the world can see. If not, who is hiding what? Because it seems to me that right now, you’re hiding behind the laws. Laws are made to be amended – are you afraid?
Lionel James
San Diego Chargers
1984 – 1988
Dave Pear
March 27th, 2010 at 1:01 PM #
Dear De Smith,
Please, “say it isn’t so”?
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Henry Bradley
Cleveland Browns
1979 – 1982 in the previous comment said:
“I even talked to Gene about it and he said leave it alone! I took it as a warning.”
Is this the same Gene that the NFLPA headquarters building is named after? “UPSHAW PLACE”?
And the NFLPA dire need fund renamed: “the Gene Upshaw Dire Need Fund”?
Note* – If retired players were allowed access to their earned disability benefits or received a pension that matched Major League Baseball then there would be no need for a dire need fund!! Right, Gene?
Retired players need to be acknowledged and interjected into any and all negotiations for any CBA contract now and in the future.
Is this same the Gene Upshaw whose estate was paid $16,000,000 once he left the building?
So many questions and “NO” answers.
We have so many more questions but we’re looking for answers to these to start.
Thank you!
Regards,
Dave & Heidi Pear
Lionel James
March 27th, 2010 at 10:22 PM #
I can’t tell whose side Mr. Hogan side is on or why he’s in disagreement but let’s just say I agree to disagree. I just don’t want to get into confrontation. But Mr. Hogan, could you please tell this audience what you are saying when you cite the Statute of Limitations? I don’t understand why this should get brought up because tomorrow there will be another new player with the same grievance. So the way I see this is nothing ever gets been solved. The clock is running on each individual player or is this a Collective Bargaining Agreement that perhaps needs to be written in pencil and not stone because it seems to change so frequently. I don’t know the math behind this but I know it’s more than two and fewer than 10 million.
In a court of law, I was always under the impression that a man has his due in front of a judge and maybe a jury in a quick time period. Why isn’t that ever the case with the Football system? After I send this, I will jump all over this issue, looking for something to satisfy my curiosity. This is too big to let go. Too many people who need answers and too many people with their lights turned off. This is America, where everyone wants to come and possibly live the rest of their lives. I know that this is a job everyone wants to apply for but you truly have to be invited to. That’s why this game is so special. This is a gladiator sport. You only get to walk in AFTER YOU GO THROUGH THE MEDICAL CHECKUP, BUT IF YOU GET IN YOU will not walk out. The game is played with the strongest and biggest and certainly not the most fragile of people. The only difference is that there are no lions involved any more. If there were Lions involved today, they might get eaten up because the men who play will eventually learn to eat them up too!
What you have is a bunch of people walking with one leg, reaching with one arm and maybe barely able to talk because they’re drunk. Drunk because they need to ease their pain. We as players do this because we’re always expected to be tough. Tough because we believe in ourselves and because our team needed us. This is what we were told by our coaches who managed the 60 or so guys who made up the team. Everything they told us was our gospel. Remember: The game is played 90 percent of the time on Sundays. To make up for our being out of touch with Christ, we trusted in the system. The system became our god. It paid our bills and paid for our well being, our kids schooling, the clothes on our backs, the gas in our cars and it gave us a sense of living.
Truth be told, I wish that I could have won the lottery for $100,000; then there would have been no strings attached! But it sure seems like there were no strings attached when the League was granted anti-trust protection, which protected the owners and left the players skinned to the bones. Which leads me to the Anti-Trust laws – I will do my best to learn more about it. And I truly hope other players will help me with this assignment!
Lionel James
San Diego Chargers
1984 – 1988
Henry Bradley
March 29th, 2010 at 10:55 PM #
I’m glad Burt has a lawyer who is helping him. When my Severance Pay was taken, no lawyer would take my case. I understood why – because the NFLPA was too powerful. But just because you’re the bully doesn’t give you the right to take the little guy’s lunch money. What transpired from me not getting my severance pay still affects me today. Gene never had to sleep in his car because he lost his house.
I thank God for keeping me during that time because I wanted to get even. I don’t care what the building is named because what happens from this day forward is what matters. I believe in Mr. Smith to do what’s right. A lot of you guys didn’t know about severance and didn’t submit your paper work – I knew and submitted mine but still didn’t get paid. I asked Tom Depaso to help then and he refused.
Henry Bradley
Cleveland Browns
1979 – 1982
John Hogan
March 30th, 2010 at 3:05 AM #
(I feel a little silly replying to part 4 when we are up to part 6 – but…)
Lionel,
I am on the side of retired players. I hope Burt gets every penny, plus interest, plus penalty, plus attorney’s fees – then he can take us all out to dinner! (I’ll buy the drinks!)
I think it is outrageous that ANY of you don’t get everything you are entitled to, and I’m amazed at the failure of those who should have helped you guys.
(I had a client tell me just yesterday that he doesn’t think he got his severance!) The only point I was trying to make is that even where you are owed something, you can lose the right to collect if you wait too long. Unfortunately, not everything about the law is always “fair.”
John Hogan
Disability Attorney
Scott
June 2nd, 2010 at 12:43 PM #
Have there been any cases where the NFL would pay interest to someone who didn’t receive their severance pay for 10 years?
Burt Grossman
June 3rd, 2010 at 9:02 AM #
Scott -
They aren’t any cases of them paying the Principle let alone any Interest!
I was forced to hire a lawyer just to be heard by either side.
Still waiting for my Severance Pay 16 years later,
Burt Grossman
San Diego Chargers, Philadelphia Eagles
1989 -1994