Independent Retired Players Meet with NFL & NFLPA
For the first time, the NFL and the NFLPA extended an invitation to “The Independent Retired Players” to attend and participate in a meeting called to discuss the problems that continue to plague Retirees. Bob Grant, an Independent Activist and Advocate for our cause, was asked to attend on behalf of the Retired Players.
…………
While much was left unaddressed at the end of this first meeting, many issues were brought into the discussion that were not a part of the original limited agenda announced by Harold Henderson (NFL Attorney), who chaired the meeting.
…………
Grant told the Attendees at the Meeting that the days of the NFL and the NFLPA with their “Insiders” making decisions for Retired Players without our direct participation have to end.
…………
The two topics scheduled for discussion were The University of Michigan Study (that we as Independents are uncomfortable with) as well as The NFL Player Care Plan and Foundation which we do not feel goes nearly far enough, fast enough and isn’t effective enough for our rapidly aging troops.
…………
There were other statements made by both Attorney Henderson and Commissioner Goodell that Bob Grant questioned. We will have those up for discussion at a later date here on this blog and hope that you will weigh in as they get posted. One example was a statement made by Henderson that all out-of-pocket expenses were reimbursed to one of our men who went through a dozen spinal and hip surgeries. Henderson stood by his claim but we plan to show that he was misinformed. Grant also made a point of the fact that Programs offered by the NFL and the NFLPA have so many roadblocks and unnecessary hurdles that our men are left with no confidence in any of them.
…………
At one point, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell expressed some concern over the NFL’s ability to reach only about 1,300 Retirees with information on some of the Plans offered and promised through The Player Care Plan and Foundation. As retired players, we don’t believe that either has lived up to their potential or is reaching and helping those most in need. Bob Grant offered the outreach resources of Dave Pear’s Blog – The Unofficial Blog for Independent Retired Football Players – and its base of 300,000 monthly visitors as a vehicle for direct communication with retired players. While we may or may not agree with information posted by the NFL or the NFLPA, it will be posted exactly as it is given to us. The only condition is that all posts will be subject to the site’s standard rules for content and its Open Comments policy. Bob Grant believed that both groups indicated a willingness to take advantage of our offer.
…………
Grant also challenged the many Groups in the past who have claimed the right to represent us while never having received a single vote to do so from our Independent rank-and-file.
…………
Bob pointed out and offered documentation to show that Gene Upshaw was wrong when he stated that the NFLPA did not represent Retired Players. Valerie Thomas, Retired NFL Player Activist and former NFLPA employee provided documentation taken from the LM-2 financial reports that Upshaw, Berthelesen and others from the NFLPA filed with the US Dept. of Labor claiming to represent 1680 men from 2000 to 2003, then 2080 men in 2004 and 2005, with a stated claim of approximately 6,000 members in 2006 to 2009. We believe that the sudden 4,000 member increase beginning in 2006 could only be attributed to the inclusion of Retired Players. Bob stated to Mr. Goodell, Mr. Smith, and Mr. Krauser (from the NFL Alumni) as well as everyone else in the room that someone should go to jail if those financial reports were falsely stated. The NFLPA has in fact claimed representation of Retired Players for many years now but has not lived up to its obligations to them. Upshaw was wrong. Director Smith’s statements about representing both active AND retired players are right on point. Of course, he must still demonstrate that he and the NFLPA have the ability to follow through on his Leadership claims.
…………
As Independent Retired Players, we feel no need to defend either Roger or “D.” We are neither “hatchet men,” intent on destroying either man, nor do we wish to destroy professional football. Still, we must continue to pursue ALL ACTIONS NECESSARY to reclaim what is owed Retired Players from years gone by and to secure our small piece of the pie now and in the future.
…………
The Independent Player Advocates are continuing to work at putting things together that will help us regain our rights. Watch for more exciting news in the coming days. And as always, we ask you to “think for yourself, investigate for yourself and then make intelligent decisions on whom and what you will support.”
…………
Sincerely,
We Remain,
Your Independent Retired Player Activists And Advocates
…………
List of Attendees
- Pete Abitante – NFL
- Tyrone Allen – NFLPA
- George Atallah – NFLPA
- Cornelius Bennett – retired player
- Richard Berthelsen – NFLPA
- Harry Carson – retired player
- Andre Collins – NFLPA
- Clark Gaines – NFLPA
- Gary Gertzog – NFL
- Roger Goodell – NFL
- Bob Grant – independent retired player rep
- Harold Henderson – NFL
- Brian Holloway – retired player
- Jerry Kramer – retired player
- Frank Krauser – NFL Alumni
- Steve Largent – retired player
- Belinda Lerner – NFL
- Charles Mann – retired player
- Brig Owens – retired player
- Teri Patterson – NFLPA
- DeMaurice Smith – NFLPA
- George Taliaferro – retired player
- Ken Valdiserri – Gridiron Greats
- Miki Yaras-Davis – NFLPA
…………
Irv Cross
September 29th, 2009 at 3:33 PM #
Bob:
Thanks for a great report! A number of the retired players’ issues could be easily solved with regular updates like this. Keep the line of communication open.
Irv Cross
1961 – 1969
Philadelphia Eagles & LA Rams
Walt Roberts
September 29th, 2009 at 4:14 PM #
Thanks, Bob Grant, for representing the retired players. I see attendees names on this list that have been absent for quite some time. Bernie Parrish should have been in attendance or was he not invited?
Truth is, many of these people can’t be trusted. They have demonstrated time and time again that they don’t give a damn about retired players. Some of these people should be in jail. They are liars, crooks and no good… well, whatever you want to call them…
Walt Roberts
Cleveland Browns NFL champs 64 (65 & 66)
New Orleans Saints 1967
Washington Redskins l969 & 1970
Dave Pear
September 29th, 2009 at 9:56 PM #
Thanks, Bob, doing a fine job!
I would like to point out that the vast majority of people on the list are employees of the NFL. They work for the owners and they do exactly what they are told to do. If they don’t, not only can they be fired but they will be fired.
However, some may even want to do the right thing but they are only employees.
In fact, Roger Goodell probably said it best at one of his meetings (no wives allowed) when he was going around to a few different cities because “he was trying understand what the problems were for retired players” (even though he has worked for the league for over 25 years).
At one point during the meeting in Southern California Roger threw his hands up in the air and said, “Men, I have a job to do.”
Roger is right and he is doing exactly what the owners are paying him to do because he’s an employee and he’s not going to risk his $12,000,000 a year salary.
There are three things that will change the treacherous and illogical treatment by the owners towards the retired players who are the makers of this game (or business):
1) Bad publicity;
2) Congress introducing legislation to correct this harsh and illegal treatment;
3) A Court of Law.
Greed continues to be the sole motivating factor in this cash cow called the NFL.
Regards,
Dave & Heidi Pear
Tommy Brooker
September 30th, 2009 at 7:46 AM #
I enjoy reading all that’s going on and wish in ways I could be more involved with the inner workings to push what is going on and stop the abuse of us former players. Let’s face it, we’re not going to ever get the raise we all deserved back when we played and we certainly don’t need to lose any benefits that we have now.
The Collective Bargaining agreement needs to be addressed before we all forget about it and assume it is still prevailing.
The day is coming that you and I cannot afford a ticket to a “nothing” game, much less some rival game…the same goes for public!
Tommy Brooker
Dallas Texans & Kansas City Chiefs
1962 – 1967
Larry Kaminski
September 30th, 2009 at 1:21 PM #
Bob:
Thank you for the great effort on our behalf. Needless to say, open and honest communication is the key to any successful negotiations. None of us, as retired players, were ever given a chance to do so until now. For you to get an audience is just what we all need. Thanks to Dave and his blog for getting out good information.
With the press coverage of dementia and former players, I am anxious to see what the action will be by the NFL. Who will they put the blame on for this new concern that has been known for several years?
Bob, thanks again for taking the time to speak for us with no hidden agendas.
Larry Kaminski
Denver Broncos
1966-1973
Harry Carson
October 1st, 2009 at 8:59 AM #
I read with great interest the accounts of Bob Grant in regard to the recent NFL Alliance meeting (September 17, 2009). Bob did a good job indicating the other former players who were also in attendance representing all retired players. (Cornelius Bennett, Brian Holloway, Bob Grant, Steve Largent, George Taliaferro, Charles Mann, Brig Owens and Harry Carson) I’m not looking to dispute points that Bob made in his accounts, everyone in the room was very much aware of the points of discussion. But I want to be very clear that others in that room on that day contributed to the issues discussed as well. To some reading the account, it seems to have left readers with the impression that no one else contributed anything to the meeting which was not the case.
One of the main issues the Alliance has faced over the past couple of years is the inability to communicate with the masses of former players and their families to share information on programs that have been created. This is of great concern to everyone as we need to reach out to former players who may have fallen “out of the loop” with the various organizations. The offer of Dave Pear’s Blog to disseminate information was welcomed by the League but also by others who want to get messages out to more individuals and groups.
The two main topics discussed was a recap of the programs that have been created to assist retired NFL Players under The NFL Player Care Foundation. After that recap a University of Michigan Study commissioned by the League was shared with those in attendance before being released to the general media. On a personal note, I believe that an additional purpose of the meeting was to introduce DeMaurice Smith into the process in regard to the Alliance. It had been almost a year since the last meeting that occurred right after the passing of Gene Upshaw. This meeting was the first for Mr. Smith and it allowed him to get up to speed with the previous programs and some of the participants.
This was Bob Grant’s first meeting as a part of the Alliance as well, it was my fifth. I certainly don’t consider myself an “Insider” and while I’m not looking to prop anyone up or tear anyone down I can honestly say I’ve seen more done within the last 3 years than so many years before when our pleas for help were virtually ignored. Has it been enough? Hell no, everyone knows much more needs to be done on so many fronts. While we as retired players felt that we were not adequately being represented by the NFLPA different groups around the country sprang up to assist former players and their families in need. Quite frankly, none of us were under the illusion that someone died and left any particular group “in charge” but everyone recognized there were needs that had to be addressed among our own. And with or without a vote by anyone we individually and collectively stepped up to do what needed to be done to help the cause. Some of us (me included) who did step up by attending the Alliance meetings were characterized by our own as “Blind Sheep” for merely sitting at the table to discuss our issues.
It is well documented that so much has occurred between the past leadership of the NFLPA and those former players the PA should have been looking out for. We don’t have to “go there” in this forum but for so many of us regardless of the change in leadership we know that the credibility of the NFLPA representing Retired Players and our interests are forever gone. Whether it was the case of Mike Webster, EA Sports or some other reason the trust, the accountability and the faith that the NFLPA would do right by me and other players is gone. Of the many lessons I’ve learned from football, one of the best is “you only get one chance to screw me around”. Once you show me your true colors you never get another shot! From most of you I’ve spoken with, you agree with me that we need separation as well as someone who will put our needs first and not as an after thought. That is the reason I feel the absolute best option for all retired NFL Players to be under the roof of the NFL Alumni Association. I have gone on record that the person to lead us must be passionate about representing us yet compassionate in dealing with every player and their family member.
Bob Grant forgot to mention in his account that a request was made from players who have been participants in multiple Alliance meetings in the past to both Commissioner Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith to designate a percentage of the gross revenues exclusively to the Retired Players as a part of the next Collective Bargaining Agreement. We as a group should never be held as pawns to be leveraged from either side. It has long been understood that the Alliance was created to bring parties together to help resolve disability issues that could be addressed more immediately. It was not a forum to discuss pensions because pension issues could only be addressed as part of the CBA. Because we had all parties in attendance we made it a point to put that request on the table and we will continue to lobby for a percentage of the gross for Retired Players to improve the issues that effect us the most; improved pensions and disability.
I respect Bob Grant’s version of his account of the Alliance meeting but in sending information to so many players please send it all out at the same time not in bits and pieces and certainly not in drips and drabs.
In the future, it remains to be seen if there will be another Alliance meeting but if there is I will strongly suggest that all facets of that meeting are videotaped to be shared via the internet with all retired players. In that way no one will need to rely on the memory or verbal accounts of one or two people. You will all be able to see for yourself what is going on with issues that will affect you!
Harry Carson
NY Giants 1976-1988
irv cross
October 1st, 2009 at 11:18 AM #
Harry:
Did someone take official minutes of the meeting? If so, could we have them put on line?
Irv Cross
1961 – 1969
Philadelphia Eagles & LA Rams
Bob Grant
October 1st, 2009 at 1:21 PM #
Everything I reported so far was accurate. But I did want to cover a few of the topics discussed at a time rather than trying to put too much information up at once. I was also hoping that by starting to post some of the discussions, other attendees would also open up and tell everyone what they heard.
Harry and Irv – that’s a wonderful idea! I also agree that if the Alliance is going to continue as that – an Alliance – all meetings should be documented and openly reported back to the players with total transparency so everyone knows what was discussed behind closed doors.
Bob Grant
Independent Retired Player Activist/Advocate
Bob Grant
October 1st, 2009 at 11:15 PM #
By the way, Harry’s right in saying that he and some others made strong presentations on certain issues.
Harry’s suggestion on separating the part of whatever funds are assigned to Retired Players from that assigned to the Active Players is an excellent idea and he presented it eloquently but I didn’t personally get the impression that there were a lot of people in the room who were receptive to that.
I did not ask to come to that meeting, I was invited. Mr. Henderson’s office can verify the fact that I declined the invitation at first. I don’t consider myself a leader of any sort in our movement. I am just a soldier and an activist in our cause.
In my report I only felt comfortable speaking to the exchanges that I was directly involved in. I assumed that other Attendees would do the same since we’ve invited everyone to speak on Dave Pear’s Blog. By the way, the site had way over 300,000 hits in September.
Harry is correct in saying that the corrupt Upshaw PA took advantage of us but the Owners are equally as guilty.
Mr. Smith is new and I do in fact – and with apology – encourage everyone to “GIVE HIM A CHANCE.” It is unfair to hold the things that the Previous Director did against him.
Harold Henderson said at the meeting that the problems cannot all be addressed in a single meeting. I agree with him and am only following his lead when I speak to “one issue at a time.”
Many of you got upset when Gene said that he did not represent us. Now you’re getting upset when a new Director comes along and says that he will.
Walt is correct in saying that Bernie Parrish should have a seat at that table and I hope that both the NFL and the NFLPA will make that offer to him for the next Meeting of the Alliance. Some of you say that he is too aggressive and might even “speak directly.” Well, isn’t that what we want somebody to do? He is the only Retired Player who has ever put an Effort together that got million-dollar results for a group of Retired Players. He has earned a seat at those Meetings as much as any man who was present at the last one.
Harry Carson has my respect and admiration for the stand that he made at his HOF induction for all of us. He and I had a wonderful conversation after the Meeting and I do not doubt for a moment his continued committment to Retired Players. We just see a few things a little differently but we also see many things toward the same end.
That said, I am going to be no less energetic in this work than I have been. I will absolutely give Mr. Smith a chance but I will not give him a pass. I may never be invited to another Alliance Meeting but “I am still riding with Bernie.”
Bob Grant
Delvin Williams
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:55 PM #
Hooray…!
What I just read is the definition for dialog: An exchange of ideas or opinions on a particular issue, with a view to reaching an amicable agreement or settlement to discuss areas of disagreement frankly in order to resolve them.
Keep it going!
Delvin Williams
1974 – 1981
San Francisco 49ers, Miami Dolphins, Green Bay Packers
Marvin Cobb
October 2nd, 2009 at 5:17 PM #
The fact that the various discussions on retired football players issues have risen to this level is a very good sign.
Our concerns are being discussed in Congress, in all of the newspapers, and on TV with Bryant Gumbel and soon, 60 Minutes. The fact that Bob Grant, a “representative” of the Independent Advocates and close associate of Bernie, was invited to DC at all is also a very good sign. We are getting closer. Despite our different approaches, we are making progress.
“The prizes of life are at the end of each journey, not near the beginning.”
Let’s keep it up.
Marvin Cobb
1975 – 1980
Cincinnati Bengals, Minnesota Vikings, Pittsburgh Steelers
Kathy Smith
October 3rd, 2009 at 1:40 PM #
Dear Bob,
Thank you for representing the masses in an unbiased, above-the-table manner. All retired players and their families owe you, Bernie Parrish, and others a debt of gratitude for going out on a limb for us. You all do this for no other reason than to do what is right. Please remember that you have a team of people behind you whether you hear from us frequently or not.
God Bless you,
Kathy Smith for Lucious