Bob Grant: Our Union Dollars at Work
Fellow Retired Players,
I received some news from an NFLPA “insider” yesterday and he told me that the Active Players and the Bosses at the PA – OUR Players’ Association – will now be fighting against any increase in pensions and benefits for us after the next CBA is negotiated because they are PO’ed that the we are “costing” the Union – OUR UNION – $28 million along with all of those legal expenses.
I had to laugh because I’ve never before heard of a robber and a thief wanting to punish the people that they stole from because the victims reclaimed their stolen funds in an actual Court of Law. These guys are really too much. I’m trying to “fight fair” but I don’t believe that any of these bandits – and that includes any active players who have gone along with them every step of the way – ever intend to do the “right thing” by Retired Players. Those young guys who trotted onto the fields last year, so proudly wearing that “GU” Gene Upshaw patch on their jerseys are still worshiping at his shrine. Their excuse for not standing up for what is right both morally and legally, as proven in a Federal Court already while claiming that it’s up to the Player Reps, won’t be accepted on either side of Heaven or Hell.
I really do hope that you’ll support and attend our upcoming Independent Retired Player Summit in Las Vegas on May 29th, 30th and 31st. You’ll be able to proudly say in the years to come that you were at the first Summit and were a part of a great coming together of Retired Players. Hopefully, you’ll bring your Wife along as well because we’re structuring our Meeting so that they’ll also have floor time just as you will.
But if you’re satisfied with the way that we’ve been treated as Retired Players who made such a major contribution to “The Game,” then I suggest that you go instead to the NFLPA Retired Players Steering Committee Meeting that’s being held down in Palm Springs on the same weekend. I understand that they’ll be discussing a humble request to the NFLPA asking that they be allowed to begin having two non-voting Members sitting in on Executive Board Meetings. (That’s right – NON-VOTING is what I said!) I don’t know about you but I want my right to VOTE in Union affairs restored. There is absolutely no law that prevents the NFLPA Constitution from being amended or re-written to give a “Lifetime Right To Vote” to any man who has played or is playing in the NFL. Remember: Any Constitution – including the Constitution Of The United States Of America – can legally be changed and/or amended.
I apologize for going on so long here but that tip just set me off.
I and a lot of your old fellows will be in Vegas in May working for both you and your family. I hope that you’ll join us. As my old high school coach used to say, “Just jump on the first thing smoking” and meet all of the rest of us fighters and diplomats there.
And if you haven’t already signed on and received a copy of the Master List from Marvin Cobb, it means that your name wasn’t passed on to us. To register easily, just click on the Join the Summit tab at the top of Dave’s Blog and fill in the short form. Tell others that you know as well.
Most Sincerely,
Bob Grant
Independent Retired Player Advocate
Dave Pear
March 4th, 2009 at 10:08 PM #
The days of the plague-riddled NFLPA leadership are numbered. They have ruthlessly abused their power and unchecked GREED continues to be their sole motivation. However, their time left is running short! They’re wrong and we as retired players continue to stand firm and petition for justice.
Only a full GAO (Government Accountability Office) audit will finally expose the fraud and conflicts of interest that are pervasive throughout our union.
Sincerely,
Dave & Heidi Pear
Don Ryals
March 5th, 2009 at 9:46 AM #
Dave,
Please keep on keeping on. I have never read anyone clearer on the issues affecting retired players than you.
Don Ryals
Cleveland Browns
Miami Dolphins
Denver Broncos
John Olenchalk
March 5th, 2009 at 2:48 PM #
With all due respect, and speaking as a former player who went through the owners’ lock-out in ’82, and didn’t scab in ’87 when his former team came knocking; maybe, instead of perpetuating the ad hominem attacks on the current and past NFLPA leadership as well as the active players (who are kicking in $85,000 per man, per year, under the current CBA, to support the retired players), how about focusing more of your rancor for the owners, who have been getting a free ride all along? The current players don’t have to give us a dime, but Gene got them to step up. Gene has been blindsided and defamed on this site over and over, by a number of ex-players, many of whom were among the highest paid in their respective eras, but whom I don’t recall ever trying to mobilize anything to help themselves or their predecessors in the 40′s, 50′s, 60′s, and some into even later eras. I remember Bruce Laird who was a rep at the time, having to be begged to bring a contingent from the Charger’s to play in the Ted Turner “All Stars” game we played in the L.A. Coliseum to defy league ownership during the lockout in 1982… DeLamielliure? Was he a player rep or a proactive spokesman for active and retired players rights in ’82? I could be wrong, but I don’t remember him being on his soapbox then? Or was he another highly paid player in his era like Sam Huff or Mike Ditka who are all of a sudden the “conscience” of the P.A. and the active players, but did they stick their necks out during their playing careers for any retired players? The hypocrisy and half truths I see stirred on this board are exactly what the NFL owners and league management wants to see happen to de-stabilize the current players and the P.A. going into the next big test.
And Goodell met with a bunch of you, what did you get from him? He’s the tiebreaker vote for the management on the disability cases isn’t he?
Gene is dead and buried. You cheapen your cause when continue to trash him.
It’s too bad many of you got butchered and mistreated during your careers (by contemporary orthopedic and medical standards) and it’s too bad that most of us played in eras when the economics of the game were different- BUT THAT WAS THE LIFE AND EMPLOYMENT WE CHOSE. It’s also a shame that some of you had lousy legal advice in your multiple failed lawsuits, e.g. – you couldn’t decide what your full disability injury claim should be based on, a back problem or a concussion, or you took your pension out early and now you want to turn back the clock. YOU CAN’T GET OUT OF A PENSION WHAT YOU DIDN’T PUT IN.
And yet, Gene was able to get the current players to offset that fact, over and over, but it will never be enough no matter who is running the P.A. for some of you.
I know many of you on this blog won’t and can’t tone down the rhetoric:
- because you are so polarized and embittered
- because you’re in pain
- because you need to objectify your misery in some cases
but savaging a dead man’s legacy and attacking the current players is not going to help your cause. You alienate the current players and you’re hosed, because the Owners aren’t going to help you. Most of you played in the eras during which the League and the Owners completely conspired against you, but until Garvey, and until Gene, what progress was really made? This is not to belittle the efforts of Mackey, et.al. in ’74, but get real, the real progress didn’t come until much, much late – notably ’82 and ’87 etc… Didn’t I read on this blog how Goodell wasn’t going to let you bring your wives to a meeting that he just glad-handed you in recently?
The P.A. was held accountable in court on the class action licensing case, and they’ll pay up. That was wrong, and it’s been proven.
But to blithely paint everyone at the P.A., and in the current active ranks, as contemptible, selfish and untrustworthy? Do you include the player oriented disability review board members like my ex-teammate Tom Condon as “sell outs” in your world view? In my humble opinion, this echo chamber that masquerades as a blog is badly out of tune.
Sincerely,
John Olenchalk
Tony Davis
March 5th, 2009 at 3:38 PM #
John,
Who settled the lockout of ’82? And how did the ’87 strike get settled? When you know the answers to those questions, let me know.
Then we will talk about the competence of the NFLPA and Gene Upshaw. You think that the NFLPA has looked after those with whom the game was built on. This has never, ever been a Union; it’s been a damn Country Club. If the NFLPA would have chosen to follow MLB as the example of how a true Labor Union is operated by working for same level pension increases for its retired membership as what is negotiated for its active players – unlike what the NFLPA has done – we probably wouldn’t have an issue. Last, that you question the intregrity of a man like Joe D tells me all I need to know about you. I only wish Upshaw would have attempted to break Joe D’s neck, just so we could see Upshaw get his ass kicked!
Tony Davis
John Hogan
March 5th, 2009 at 3:46 PM #
John,
Thanks for your opinion.
The Commissioner is the ex-officio chair of the retirement board – he DOES NOT have a vote.
Yes, Tom Condon and the other NFLPA-appointed members of the Retirement Board probably routinely vote in favor of the retired players’ disability claims where there is support for it. However, Tom is a lawyer and has been on the Board for a long time. I have never heard him criticize the disability plan – which is a disaster. As an agent, he makes his money from the active players, not the retired ones.
Neither the Commissioner nor the League were found guilty of violating their fiduciary duty to the retired players in the recent Adderley Class action; it was the NFLPA – their own union!
Gene achieved great things for active players, but there wasn’t any reason that he could not have achieved much better pensions and disability for the retired players – but they didn’t pay his exorbitant salary, so it was OK to throw them a little bit of dog food.
I take it from your comments that your health is good and that you have had a successful post-football career. Congratulations. However, if your ability to make a living and support your family was significantly compromised because of football-related injuries, you would have a totally different perspective.
John Hogan
Disability Attorney
Robert
March 5th, 2009 at 4:35 PM #
John Olenchalk,
While I generally make it a point not to comment on this blog myself, your callous comments deserve open criticism and answers from and for the disabled retired players. My particular emphasis is on the key word disabled. A large majority of these players have been or will soon be facing major disability problems directly related to football. That’s a fact which I’m sure no one will dispute, including you as well as those in the NFLPA. You’ll also probably agree that the game of football has now grown to be the biggest spectacle sport of all time generating $8 billion a year in revenues. This didn’t happen overnight and it certainly didn’t happen because of the efforts of any one man or team or owner. It was just that: a team effort.
And as much as it sounds like you simply don’t want to acknowledge the collective efforts of ALL your fellow players, everyone did contribute to the game. Much like the private and public pension plans of today, Social Security itself was originally set up to provide a safety net for those who grew old and could no longer take care of themselves. Your own parents may even be benefiting from Social Security themselves. It was also for this reason that the original NFL Benefits Plan (Bert Bell/Pete Rozelle Plan) was set up and funded. Everyone pools money into it to benefit the greater whole. And with the average age of a player projected by the NFL’s own actuaries to be 55, it’s hard to imagine that many will even be around long enough to take a lot from that system. In much the same way, the government Social Security System has collected money from every worker’s pay check as well as from employers to build a fund from which to pay retired Americans.
I can’t imagine anyone actually telling their parents or grandparents that since they barely put any money into Social Security that they don’t deserve to receive any of it. Why don’t you just go ahead and tell your parents and grandparents that you’ve decided that they won’t be getting their monthly checks any more? They’ll probably kick your ass and toss you out of their house! It reminds me of some seniors once trying to argue with me about why they should no longer have to pay some of their property taxes as they no longer had children in school. My answer was simple: “Go right ahead and stop paying your portion of property taxes to fund schools; then I’ll just simply stop paying my Social Security contributions along with the millions of other workers today because it’s all going to pay jerks like you right now.” My point was that all of these programs are set up for the long term and for the greater good, NOT for the individual.
But what’s even worse is taking people’s money and then not only keeping it from them but also paying yourself really well to “administer” it. That amounts to sheer greed and fraud. Have you even questioned why all of these various Boards and Committees within the NFLPA never seem to change faces over the years? It’s interesting that you brought up Tom Condon – he’s a perfect example of everything’s that wrong in this entire process. As Gene Upshaw’s personal agent and close friend, Condon was appointed to the benefits board (apparently for life) and seems to have gone along with voting down most applications and appeals over the years.
So let’s see if I’ve got this right: Upshaw sets up all these little fiefdoms within his NFLPA kingdom, appointing all of his friends to run them, while also personally drawing down a salary, benefits and bonuses package in excess of $10 million a year. None of them are elected and there’s never any elections offered (or even discussed). Then we’ll collect all of this money from the owners and current players each and every year so we can “manage” it all for them with Upshaw’s own hand-picked team of cronies. Why, we’ll even fly everyone out to Hawaii each and every year for a big vacation (we’ll even throw in daycare for their kids!) – er, Annual Meeting – that we get to write off by telling everyone we’re taking care of Union bid-ness. Oh – and the retired players never get to vote even though there are almost three times as many of them as there are active players at any given time. Have I got that right, John, or is there something else that I’ve missed?
And how about this? In a business where there are more injuries than in any other industry – not just sports – why is it that only 300 out of a pool of over 8,000 retired players are receiving benefits today? Is it because perhaps they played mediocre football in their youth to play it safe and avoid the aches and pains in their later years? I suspect that the majority of those players played their game with the same passion that they’re now showing in going back after the very Union that was originally set up to help ALL players – past, present AND future. If you’re still a card-carrying member of the NFLPA, I might remind you to take that card out of your fat wallet and read it for yourself once again.
Robert Lee
Tony Davis
March 5th, 2009 at 5:24 PM #
One more thing John,
While I respect any man who played the game – even for 2 years such as you did – you’re not vested and as such, don’t have quite as big a dog in this hunt as shall we say, Hall of Famer, Joe DeLamielleure.
Tony Davis
John Olenchalk
March 5th, 2009 at 6:31 PM #
Mr. Davis,
To set as precondition to our discussion, that I walk you through the 1982 and 1987 situations seems a little off point. Wikipedia can do that. Your opinion of Gene and the competence of the NFLPA is yours, I’ve given my opinion of the efficacy of the dialogue on this blog – I knew before I posted I would be hammered back. To compare the struggles of the NFLPA to MLB and without acknowledging the major differences in underlying economics and labor force is a little like comparing the benefits and pension packages of the airline pilots union to the box cutters union; it’s disingenuous but apparently it makes sense to you. And I’m not questioning JD’s integrity, I’m raising a legitimate question from the era, and if he’s got the facts on his side, I’ll reconsider or retract. But I’m not jocking him or Gene Upshaw on this blog or with my comments. And if you only want to listen to Hall of Famers to form your opinions or to throw down their career vs mine as leading proof of their veracity, that’s your prerogative, but it seems like a pretty simple-minded approach.
Mr. Hogan, perhaps your perspective on the situation has something to do with your occupation as well, I could easily say that by Mr.Davis’ standards you’re disqualified because you aren’t to my knowledge an HOF, but that would be argumentative. You show me any captain of industry who lasted 26 years and grew revenues 1800% to his workers, achieved a majority % of the gross revenues back to his constituents, who wouldn’t be making at least $10M a year in total compensation. And while you’re at it, is there any limit on your salary? And just like any agent, Tom Condon notwithstanding, I’ll bet you get paid up front out of the spoils of victory achieved through representation (exploitation?) of the physical deeds achieved by your clients.
Mr. Lee, you can’t get any more out of social security than you pay in, and nominal increases have been achieved on the backs of the current workers at irregular times, so the model seems to be pretty similar here, so if that is your model for excellence, what’s your beef?
I’ve questioned the orthodoxy of this board, for that I expected I’d get roughed up. I don’t think any of you are willing to give up your haterade when it comes to Gene Upshaw, so be it. But I think there are a few people living in glass houses throwing some stones here, and I’m raising my hand and saying enough! You got my e-mail address and added me to the distribution list undoubtedly from the NFLPA Retired list which GENE STARTED FOR US. That’s ironic in and of itself. And I still don’t see anybody stepping up and saying, you know, you’ve probably got a SMALL POINT, there are a lot of guys who’ve been dumping on Gene that have jumped on a bandwagon they were never willing to push during their careers both GREAT and SMALL…
Sincerely,
John Olenchalk
Ange Coniglio
March 5th, 2009 at 6:44 PM #
The evil that men do lives after them. The way to insure that it won’t, is to do good. And I guess John Olenchalk doesn’t realize that the first AFL Players Association was formed in 1963, and the first NFLPA CBA was in 1968. So he’s boasting about what he did or didn’t do in 1987? And if it is the owners who are at fault for retired players’ ills, then why doesn’t the NFLPA -their Union – fight them over it, to gain benefits for their former brothers?
Talk about rancor, it sounds to me like John Olenchalk is the bitter one, maybe because he was only in Professional football long enough to have a cup of coffee. And maybe he doesn’t have the problems that many of his predecessors had because he played only ten games, and his stats read 0-0-0-0-0-0-0.
Ange Coniglio
John Olenchalk
March 5th, 2009 at 6:53 PM #
Lest I be accused by Mr. Lee of not completely reading his screed:
Upshaw positioned the current players to take advantage of the unique changes in access to and marketing of the game, that changed the economics dramatically. Notably the expansion of cable and satellite networks and the corresponding advertising contract revenues and broadcast rights. Sure, the current players were the beneficiaries of this fundamental change, salaries went more than 10X from my last game check in January 1983 to 1993 and the % of gross and have been growing ever since. Whether the retired players should have had a more active role is a valid point and undoubtedly reform is needed. And Gene was his own worst enemy on some of this stuff.
You throw a lot of anecdotal numbers, hyperbole and punctuate it with a sneer, is that how you normally conduct a spirited discussion with a peer? Or do I get dissed because you are “right” and I’m just not stepping in line with the rest of your sycophants? My fat wallet? Look, if you want to brawl on this blog go ahead and knock yourself out. I’m not impressed with your style, but at least I’m not surprised by it.
Bob Grant
March 5th, 2009 at 6:54 PM #
Wow! Johnny “O” is one arrogant, self righteous, uninformed gentleman. I am not at all surprised to see that he has absolutely NO idea of why the Union was formed or even who started it. (Read Bernie Parrish’s book “They Call It A Game.”)
This guy has to be on somebody’s payroll because he seems to be more upset with us than Jeffrey, Tom, Trace, or “Bertie” are. They at least have come out recently and suggested trying to work with both retired and active players soon.
Heck! I was at Roger’s meeting in Newport Beach and even he said that something had to be done to address retired player affairs.
“Mr Johnny O” is a real head case. Still, he is invited to attend the upcoming Summit and we will even give him floor time to stand up and repeat what he said to all of the Retired Players there.
Bob Grant
Dave Pear
March 5th, 2009 at 7:14 PM #
John Olenchalk is NOT vested for any benefits. If he was, perhaps he might see things for what they are (FRAUDULENT).
The NFLPA Leadership has just been found guilty in Federal Court of breaching their fiduciary responsibility to over 2,000 retired players (stealing). This is only the start of exposing the fraud that is pervasive throughout our union.
You’re in the real estate business. When you lease or sell a building and don’t get paid, what’s your position? Gene Upshaw and his gang have been stealing from retired players for decades. If you had something at stake here, I seriously doubt you would be defending these crooks.
Dave Pear
John Olenchalk
March 5th, 2009 at 7:19 PM #
I’m right here. But I’m not upset. Disappointed, maybe. You forgot to add that I’m callous, bitter, full of rancor and deserve open criticism. Fair enough. Now you’ve got me on someone’s payroll, and the conspiracy theories are rolling. Look, I guess since I’m not vested and my years in the CFL before the NFL don’t count, that I can’t stand up for Gene on some principles without being a “head case”. You guys are pretty good at dishing out some venom, but you aren’t real good at engaging in a constructive dialogue. I’ve made an effort to engage you all on a blog that I’ve been bombarded with for months. I don’t go to any of the NFLPA conventions, and I won’t be at this summit either. Feel free to quote me, but don’t parse or take me out of context, read the whole letter.
And if any of you want to meet me, I’m easy to find. Call me, or make an appointment, and I’ll discuss it with you. Maybe you can win me over on some of these points and issues. But the approach your using on me now is pretty amateurish.
John Olenchalk
Robert
March 5th, 2009 at 8:18 PM #
MR. Olenchalk
Well, in response to your additional comments, I’ll start by telling you to look at what has just transpired. Will you openly acknowledge the fact that we post your comments – and everyone else’s – openly and uncensored as long as it’s reasonably civil? If we wanted to have a one-sided discussion, your comments would never have even made it this far.
That said, to begin with, your observations are patently wrong about the Social Security System. There are many people who are rightfully – and wrongfully – receiving benefits far exceeding what they themselves paid into it. And that was, in fact, one of the original reasons why the system was set up in the first place. There are even disabled retired football players who have qualified under their strict rules and are now receiving some monthly benefits. In most cases, it’s been a whole lot more than what the NFLPA says they SHOULD be paying them under their own guidelines but choose to disqualify them with archaic rules and private doctors. I’ve personally witnessed the difficulty that most SSI applicants endure in order to qualify. They intentionally make it difficult. But in the end, if you do objectively meet their criteria, you WILL be approved to receive YOUR benefits. (Moreover, you probably also don’t know that there are many immigrants who arrived as elderly parents to these great shores and yes, indeed – they DO qualify and they DO receive Social Security benefits.) And yes – those people actually also get more than they put into the system. Often a LOT more because they’re recognized as needing it. Not so in the NFLPA’s case as I’m sure you’ve seen from the paperwork we’ve openly published on this blog. We’ve made it a point to back up everything we say with evidence and facts. For you to come back and talk about innuendo would indicate that you have not actually looked at everything presented or you choose to ignore it. That’s always everyone’s choice. You’re entitled to your opinion. If you simply choose to debate by calling the other side wrong and questioning their facts, then I suggest you back up your own comments rather than simply calling someone else’s facts anecdotal. You’re not the only one who may have been on the debate team in school.
Several years ago, when Bernie Parrish was the lonely voice out in the wilderness pointing out the injustice and illegal activity in those GLA’s, he was also dismissed by many people on all sides as a crackpot and vindictive. Yet, you yourself just acknowledged the fact that indeed, the retired players just won a resounding victory and should now get paid. Yet the Union – their own UNION – has now declared open war on those same players who proved in a court of law with a judge and jury that they were intentionally defrauded of money that belonged to them. Based on this recent development, am I to assume that you think the NFLPA should continue to use the players’ own money – yes, current and past players’ money – to fight them over and over again at all costs while making the lawyers rich? Or should the NFLPA finally acknowledge that they were actually found guilty and pay up to right their wrong?
And why do you think the owners should be saddled with the cost of benefits for the Unions’ membership when in fact, the NFLPA receives between 65 – 70% of gross revenues already? The original negotiated intent was to hand that all over to the Union to work with for their own. I would like to think that $5 billion+ a year would be more than enough to take care of a lot of people. Except when you overpay everyone on your staff to stonewall the very people who helped to create your paycheck. I marvel at the fact that the owners have to get the stadiums built, sell the tickets, negotiate the salaries and build the business and then 2/3 of the money goes to the Union and its players. And I will acknowledge that many of those gains to the hardball tactics of Gene Upshaw. (Then again, some of it was just plain dumb luck unless now you’re going to give Upshaw credit for inventing satellite and cable as well.) But if you give him the credit for doing so, then the responsibility – and ultimately the blame – should equally fall squarely fall on his shoulders as well. You talk about Upshaw as if he should only be revered for his accomplishments but ignoring his shortcomings has long been the greatest tragedy I’ve seen in all of this.
It’s not our job or goal to convince anyone to see and understand the wrongs that have been done. It’s also not our position to drag people along who don’t want to help. There are those of us who choose to help because we see the wrong that’s been intentionally imposed on so many who can no longer even help themselves. For me personally, I don’t see this as a you’re-either-for-them-or-you’re-against-them battle but rather as ‘What can you do to help your fellow man and if you can’t that’s fine but stay out of my way if you won’t.’ I choose to help. It never ceases to amaze me that in this – a TEAM sport – that some could still be so divided or divisive about helping your fellow team members. So ends this screed.
Mr. Lee
Tony Davis
March 5th, 2009 at 9:15 PM #
So you don’t know how the ’82 Walkout nor the Strike of ’87 was settled? Take your ass home and stay there. You have no voice in this fight and based on your past, no credit. We have more important issues to deal with than someone who thinks he knows the issues based on a personal relationship with one of the authors of corruption in the NFL. Once again, find out the issues and settlements of ’82 and ’87.
Tony Davis
Grew Plisinsing
March 5th, 2009 at 9:27 PM #
Mr. Olenchalk,
I see that you are one of the 2,062 retired players who were victorious over the NFLPA in the group licensing lawsuit.
In your first comment you wrote:
“The P.A. was held accountable in court on the class action licensing case, and they’ll pay up. That was wrong, and it’s been proven.”
I can only assume from your comments that you feel entitled to a share of the $28.1 million verdict and that you didn’t opt out of the class. The basis of the group licensing program is that ALL players – whether they are NFL MVP’s or played one game in the NFL – are treated the same. You agreed to this theory by signing Group Licensing Agreements in 2000 and 2003.
Whether they played in the 1950′s or the 2000′s, all players were to be treated equally in the group licensing program you chose to participate in. That didn’t happen.
You felt wronged by the NFLPA and remained a member of the class in the group licensing lawsuit. There is nothing wrong with that.
There are many who feel that the dishonest conduct of the NFLPA goes beyond the Group Licensing Program. Unfortunately ERISA lawsuits involving pension and disability benefits are much more difficult to win than your lawsuit against the NFLPA.
You are entitled to your opinion, but please don’t think your beef against the NFLPA is any more valid than another former player’s.
I see that despite your short yet very honorable NFL career that you have preferred status within the NFLPA. You participated in quite a few events on the Union’s dime. The Union’s preferential treatment of a guy like you may skew your ability to be objective.
Feel free to thank the retired players who fought tirelessly without pay to get you a share of $28.1 million. Many of them post on this website.
Grew Plisinsing
Bob Grant
March 5th, 2009 at 11:48 PM #
Fellas,
Neither Upshaw or the NFLPA wanted any of the players from the Class Action Suit to get one single dime. The PA has spent millions to avoid payment and are now in the process of spending some millions more. If John holds Gene and the NFLPA in such high regard, he can do the honorable thing and refuse to accept any of the money. If he does accept it, his actions are certainly in conflict with his words. I’m betting that he will take the money. No! I guarantee you that he’s going to take the money.
And Bernie, this is one of those who aren’t even going to think about contributing to the war chest for ongoing efforts through the Courts.
Forget this guy and let’s get on with the work of helping Retired Players. He’s little more than a blowhard.
The invitation to the Summit remains open to him.
Bob Grant
John Hogan
March 6th, 2009 at 3:21 AM #
Oh heck, I shouldn’t bother …but, yes, my perspective is based upon my occupation – as a disability attorney for almost 30 years I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! And no, I don’t get paid up front – I only get paid if I win. And I don’t think anyone familiar with my work thinks I am exploiting retired players. In fact, if their union would stand up and represent them, they would never need to seek an attorney.
John Hogan
Disability Attorney
Ange Coniglio
March 6th, 2009 at 10:06 AM #
Mr. Olenchalk:
I’m just a dumb Professional Football fan who would like to see his heroes get their due. I asked a question in my previous post. You state that current players pay $85,000 per year “to support the retired players,” and that it is the Professional Football OWNERS who should be taken to task over retired player pensions and disability payments.
I’ll ask the question in a different way: Isn’t it the function of a UNION to fight FOR, rather than AGAINST its members, current OR retired? What has the NFLPA done to make a case with the owners for RETIRED players? Please post a list for me.
Ange Coniglio
John Olenchalk
March 6th, 2009 at 11:42 AM #
OK Mr. Davis. Do you want me to get into specifics of the “money now”, access to our own medical records, right to a second opinion, and the caving in of ownership on the walkout “lockout” of ’82, with a long term strategy leading towards free agency that came through in ’87, which ended up in decertification and % of the gross in ’93? If my opinion on what happened differs from yours, or I didn’t play long enough, I’m not allowed to have an opinion? This isn’t a dialogue, all you’re doing is shouting. So rave on. But just wtf is your point? Why don’t you tell me what lesson it is that you learned in those two events that I am apparently deficient in understanding, so I can benefit from your superior understanding of them, and qualify for a conversation instead of your pedantic chest beating?
In all my comments, I’ve noted that NFLPA under Gene’s leadership, but certainly well before as well, missed opportunities, was deficient in many areas, and has lost a recent court case OF WHICH I WAS A CLASS MEMBER AND DON’T NEED TO APOLOGIZE OR EXPLAIN TO ANY OF YOU, which it deserved to lose and should pay.
But the haterade, innuendo, half truths, twisted invective, blind allegiance to total conspiracy and corruption theories, and dismissive attitude you are attempting to intimidate me with on this blog are starting to play like the mass hysteria of a street mob.
I will never apologize for my small friendship and respect for Gene- all of my interaction with him subsequent to my involvement in the 1982 lockout has been directly related to involvement in NFLPA sponsored charities which he championed, notably Native Vision. If Mr. Plisinsing, or any of you wish to call me out on those efforts, and imply that Gene’s sponsorship or outreach to those charities is contemptible, then you’ve got problems that no amount of money can cure.
I came here as one independent minded, free thinking ex-player who is sympathetic to your causes and issues, but disagrees with some of your tactics and underlying assumptions. But apparently, you want an ALL OR NOTHING constituency in your crusade (Mr. Lee excepted).
I wish you all good luck in your chosen efforts, I would hope you can raise the level of the discourse a little, I remain open to direct contact and engagement on these subjects, I don’t hide behind or jock anyone for my opinions, period. I’ve walked the lines, I’ve paid the price with a shortened career for supporting the league wide “team” of players when it was my turn, it probably cost me a longer future in the league, it certainly cost me in Kansas City. Those of you with pain and game related disabilities, I wish you luck and hope you get some answers and the help you need. Asserting your own high moral ground and then turning around and demonizing me or others who think some of your approaches are over the top, or might disagree with your manifesto isn’t going to get you there, and says a hell of a lot more about your character and consciences than you are capable of seeing. Forgive me for observing that on this blog, Gene is seen as the Emperor Who Had No Clothes. From what I’m digesting here, In The Kingdom of the Blind, the one eyed man is King. Your collective myopia is verging on the pathological. It’s also boring the bejesus out of me.
John Olenchalk
John Olenchalk
March 6th, 2009 at 2:47 PM #
Mr. Grant,
You’re welcome to give your share of the judgment to the P.A.T. or donate it all to Dave Pear if you so choose, likewise your Social Security checks.
I will decide what to do with any benefits I receive from the government or anywhere else.
I signed the licensing agreements, and paid my dues, I went along with the suit and accepted the results.
Your “source” inside the NFLPA? Name him. That’s a hell of a rumor you’ve cited as fact- have the courage to source it.
I could say, for example “I’ve heard a few rumors myself, regarding one of the main candidates for the Director’s job, and how he lied in his interviews with the board; denied he ever met with congressmen to lobby for the job; how he’s already in the pocket of and has met with Goodell and the Owners; and how he’s running a cynical insider campaign using race and other inflammatory tactics to try to win active player votes.” I can hear you howling now about how out of line I am to suggest that those rumors are “facts” and how I’m running with somebody’s else’s “agenda”.
That’s how easy it is to play this game on the internet- it can cut you both ways – it’s over the top and irresponsible, but it hasn’t stopped some of the contributors here from driving the discussion threads into the gutter.
You guys don’t want to have an civil give and take conversation with me? Fine – take me off your e-mail list, I didn’t ask to be put on it to begin with.
John Olenchalk
Robert
March 6th, 2009 at 3:38 PM #
John Olenchalk -
Yes, I’m going to agree with you on one thing: Indeed in the Kingdom of the Blind, the one-eyed man IS King. And I’m sorry to be the one to inform you that you’re one of the blind, if no one else has informed you up to this point already. No one in this group expects everyone to agree on everything or to know or understand everything that’s been going on from 25 years of abuses. But sharing the information and helping each other has been the primary goal in forming a new Union. But if you want to have everything your way – as now discovered on every site and blog you’ve ever posted on – we wish you well on your sinking boat.
Civil discourse? I haven’t heard anything of the kind out of your mouth since you started posting your rabid comments on this blog as well. I wonder just exactly what you’ve told all the fine people in your community to convince them you’re a “Famous NFL Football Player” as denoted on one of your personal information pages online. You seem willing to detract from any discussion by deflecting and denouncing any facts that are put in front of your face. Someone calls you on the fact that you’re lurking on the sidelines willingly awaiting the payoff from the NFLPA/Players Inc. GLA lawsuit even as you denounce the very efforts of those who fought for years to get that award however small it might be to someone high and mighty like you – so you go off on them how it’s YOUR money. Why don’t you go to your buddies and tell them to quit their appeal so you can get your DAMN money? So you’re all too glad to glad-hand (your term from an earlier sarcastic comment – I’d use another word myself) Upshaw and Condon with one hand and accept money that you truly did less-than-nothing-to-earn from people you hate. Wah Wah Wah! Gimme Gimme Gimme! Indeed, we still have one of those fancy GU armbands around here somewhere and we also have more than a few guys around who will be glad to deliver it you personally and appropriately.
Yes, your e-mail address has been purged from our mailing lists but you may find that many of your so-called friends might continue to send you posts from blogs such as this just to remind you of how wrong you are. And yes, you’re also locked out of the Comments on this blog as well. We’ve ALL had enough. It’s been interesting to see and experience this kind of selfish and angry excuse for a human being in all its glory. Be sure to say Hi to Tom Condon and Gene Upshaw for us when you see them.
Thomas Henderson
March 12th, 2009 at 9:39 AM #
Guys, what a great debate. Dave Pear has created a great place to conduct a needed conversation about our common interest.
Thank you , Dave.
Thomas Hollywood Henderson